Lava tube! Laaavaaa tuuuuuuuube

[gement]

Washington State has one of the best publicly accessible lava tubes, Ape Cave.

I'm going! Along with J and corivax, who is kind enough to drive.

If you peruse the official site, you will note it suggests two light sources per person.

... I own one tiny flashlight.

While I should own more flashlights, I don't own flashlights and headlamps for everyone, and headlamps seem to run $20 each, which is a lot for something I won't use a lot.

Anyone Seattle-ish care to loan me some light sources?

Comments

[ivy]

Yes! I have excellent ones and I am interested in people I like not dying. Do you prefer headlamp, handheld, or both? How much battery time do you need?

[gement.livejournal.com]

Huzzah! I hoped that you in particular would respond to this one.

I'd like to use both, and we'd like to try the upper cave (estimated at 2.5 hours) and are all in crap shape. Is four hours of battery life a thing?

I also wasn't sure whether the two light sources is to have on at all times or so you have a backup. And they rent lanterns, which opens up whole new questions about what different kinds of lights one might use in a cave and to what effect; any thoughts on that?

Finally, no food in caves. I get and respect why that is necessary. How do you as a person whose body has pretty tight operating requirements, deal with "no food during this long and athletic activity" regulations?

[ivy]

Do you need to outfit your whole party, or just you? I can definitely outfit just you, I may not be able to do everyone. I have one good handheld, one giant handheld a la Maglite, and one good headlamp. (I used to have a second good headlamp but I killed it GoRucking.) When are you going?

Four hours of battery life should be doable. I bet your second light source is a backup, so it's probably more like two per device, or four per device with a just in case. I was gonna send you along with extra batteries too, though I'm not sure if I can find my lithium ones for the handheld (they are an annoying special order size) among the moving boxes if you're going, like, tomorrow. I'll look; we are nearing the end of the unpacking.

You probably have two main jobs for your light: one, see where you're walking and don't fall (where you want light right near you/near your feet, and not super bright, headlamps are decent for this) and two, illuminate farther off things you want to look at (handhelds are probably for this job). They may not want you to shine a miniature sun at sleeping bats or the like, but none of my lights should be so bright as to be a problem. Lanterns probably do job one admirably, less so job two.

Things like this, I usually stand right outside the gate and eat as much as I can stock up without messing myself up before going in, and then check in with myself a third of the way in to see how I'm doing and if I should keep going or turn around. (Is turning around an option?) Ask park staff if there are medical exemptions... sometimes there are. But the thing to be careful about is that going into the cave is probably down, which is the easy way. You don't want to be all "I got this!" and then have a terrible time on the way out, which is walking uphill and therefore a lot harder. How long does your body let you go between eating? Can you leave something ready for yourself as soon as you exit?

[gfish.livejournal.com]

Someday I want to host a secret party in the middle of that at like 5 in the morning. DJ, lights, the works.

[gement.livejournal.com]

Excellent. I am going on Sunday the 17th, so we have a good week to work things out.

I'm scrounging another headlamp from arjache, so with yours we will have at least two.

As I consider the flashlight situation in my house insufficient, I'd like to buy a few handhelds on principle. (And possibly even a lantern? It seems like it might be handy in a power outage.) If you have recommendations, please do have opinions at me.

Caving is self-guided and the tube is wide enough for traffic both directions, so I can turn back if necessary. It sounds like you do pack food, just well sealed at the bottom of your gear so you can eat as soon as you get out? Or just as soon as you get back to your car? I should be fine by any rational standard, I just have food security baggage and like to know my options.

[gement.livejournal.com]

I'm there.

(Kompressor break your glowstick! Kompressor eat your candy!)

[caladri.livejournal.com]

Kompressor reference! The second one I've encountered this month! Swoon.

[randomdreams.livejournal.com]

I shudder to suggest this, but Harbor Freight sells acceptable flashlights for $2, if you swap the batteries.

[randomdreams.livejournal.com]

I take it this isn't the Mercedes supercharger system?

[randomdreams.livejournal.com]

My reasonably extensive spelunking experience says: HELMET. hardhat. hardshell bike helmet. Something. I don't care how large the tube is. You hit your head a lot underground. Duct-tape flashlight to side. Lanyard on flashlight in your hand for the three thousand times you'll drop it.

Does the food prohibition stretch to water bottles? because gatorade isn't as good as food but it's better than nothing.

[randomdreams.livejournal.com]

note real headlamp is way better, but duct-taped flashlight got me through more caves than I can count.

[caladri.livejournal.com]

[[Kompressor (musician)]]

[ivy]

Kompressor open jaws! Kompressor release ants! Kompressor watch you scream BECAUSE KOMPRESSOR DOES NOT DANCE!

[gfish.livejournal.com]

Hrm. There are only a few sections where the ceiling is low enough you could clonk your head, iirc, but it's not a terrible idea. The big fear I had doing the upper section was just a twisted/sprained/broken ankle, since you're climbing over piles of wet and slippery boulders most of the way. One wrong move and it would suddenly become a very bad day.

But I have 3 Attoparsec-branded hardhats, if you want to borrow them. :)

[randomdreams.livejournal.com]

Within the confines of the largest single underground room in Colorado, I've hit my head so hard that even with a helmet I saw sparky things that weren't supposed to be there.
The lava tubes I've been in have been vastly friendlier than my usual speleological encounters, but, man, all it takes is one misjudged move.

And yeah, twisted ankles can be potentially deadly. Again, advantage lava tube, since EMT's can usually get in there and get you back out.

[ivy]

...now I am wondering if Seattle Mountain Rescue does caves too. Bet they do; they do all our high angle technical rope rescues, so it's probably similar. (That's way out of King County jurisdiction, but we get a bunch of cross-county assist calls since we're the biggest population center. Now I'm interested and will ask at next month's training!)

[ivy]

Are you still around Cap Hill a reasonable amount? I'd suggest swinging by here maybe Wednesday or so, I should have found all findable batteries by then.

Nope, if the rule is no food in the cave, I don't bring it, no matter how well packed, unless they give medical exemptions. I don't want to mess up a fragile ecosystem because I fucked up; caves and alpine environments can show damage for decades. But I do prep something to be available as soon as I exit -- for me, that usually means something in the car that I can eat as soon as I leave. Must include: a sugar course, a salt course, an electrolyte course, nontrivial numbers of calories. Most of the time, it's like: turkey jerky, Doritos, 16 oz water + Kona Cola Nuun tablet, raw snap peas, roasted unsalted peanuts, hot tea in a thermos, Snickers bar. That's going to cover pretty much any nutritional base I might need to hit after exercise or extended time in the cold. I packed pretty similarly for right after GoRuck, and I expect I'll be doing that for the duathlon this weekend too.

I definitely have flashlight opinions... what is your expected use case, how much are you looking to spend on it, and do you need any special features (red light, head lamp, strobe mode, adjustable brightness, long battery life, takes rechargables, takes only shelf stable batteries)? The one that you'll be borrowing from me is a Fenix P35 (basically this) -- mostly waterproof and a good balance of battery use and brightness for my needs. Your desired balance of features may vary, but that's been my go-to flashlight for 5+ years now and it's never failed me. The most annoying thing about it is that the batteries are weird and have to be ordered; you will not find them in QFC or 7-11. Most of my other gear uses AAs and I strive for that as a feature so that I only have to stock one kind of battery and only have to carry one kind of spare, but this flashlight is awesome enough that I'm willing to put up with its super special battery needs.

[ivy]

SHUN THE UNBELIEVER! [giggling]

[randomdreams.livejournal.com]

Of all the times to save money by buying cheap crap of known poor reliability, buying survival equipment that you know you're going to use is probably not one.

[randomdreams.livejournal.com]

There's a ton of specialized training stuff for subterranean rescue. I looked into doing this at one point. It seemed cool, but lots of work for rare utility.

[gement.livejournal.com]

Long battery life and standard batteries sound like the top of my list. Red mode and a couple brightness settings sound like excellent features to have as well, if they are available in lower-end varieties.

I'd probably like to buy a head lamp and three handhelds for my household.

I'd like to spend no more than $30 per light source if possible. Except for this rare excursion, I don't leave Seattle much, so parks, back yards, and power outages.

Thanks for the sample menu; that's really helpful!

Pickup logistics: While I was planning on curtailing it this week, I usually have a standing Thursday evening social round on the hill. Will you be around Thursday evening? If so, that tips me over into "go anyway, just go home early."

Otherwise, I work downtown business hours and would be happy to buy you a beverage of choice and try to meet you halfway to work out a drop-off.

[gement.livejournal.com]

I knew there was a reason I liked you.

[gement.livejournal.com]

I would be highly entertained to borrow your hardhats.

I work downtown business hours and bus everywhere. If we wanted to do an evening meal, Tuesday is free. Otherwise, a drive-by at my house or coffee date drop-off would work great.

[gement.livejournal.com]

Ping! Any recommendations? Even with 2 day shipping, I would either need to online order or plan in-person shopping Real Soon Now.

And can we rendezvous to pick up the loaners on the hill Thursday night?

[ivy]

Sorry for the lag there... unexpectedly difficult dentist stuff ate me. Okay, for your price point, I'd try something like this handheld (doesn't get you red mode, does get you standard batteries and a couple brightness settings), and something like this headlamp. I'm ordering one of those latter myself, to replace the destroyed one.

I will be around Thursday, but I may go to martial arts that night, so I'd be leaving fiveish if so. What time is your engagement?

[gement.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the recs!

I usually leave work at 5 but could leave early if necessary to catch you? Or catch you on the flipside? Not sure what time you get home. My other engagement is at Pho Cyclo on Broadway; I'm not sure where you are but I'd be happy to buy you a food or beverage if it makes a rendezvous more appealing.

[ivy]

I work from home, so I'll be here for the majority of the day. Mayhem and I were talking about maybe doing a furniture ordering run over lunch tomorrow, though, so if we do that I might be able to swing downtown on my way there or back and do the handoff. Where downtown are you?

[gement.livejournal.com]

REDACTED and I have no strictly scheduled hours. Text REDACTED.

This phone number will self destruct in one edit.