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[gement]

Hey, it turns out this work ethic thing means that I haven't opened LJ in days because I'm trying to stay focused. :) I'm coming on long enough to post instead of long enough to read. I've folded 36 cranes and several stellated octahedrons, by the way. (Thanks, tensory, for introducing me to Sonobe units.)

I keep composing a post in my head about my hopelessly androgynous and effeminate male role models, but I think this one has to come first.

I've been catching the misogynist things I yell at myself.

When I try to play first-person video games and get sea sick or don't have the reflexes or I'm put off by the violence level. When I find emotional tension in fiction hotter than body parts (cue slash criticism of "women want to read about men talking about their feelings"). When the crafts keeping me sane on the bus are origami and knitting. The internal response is consistent, and consistently worded.

"God, you're such a GURL."

It's not even the fact that these things are some of the incremental ways that it's difficult for me to be read as male on my guy days. That's just fueling the fire. I am basically self-conscious about liking gurl things. I'm not the only female or female-bodied geek I know with a pink allergy, but I've become very aware lately of how suspiciously I suspect any desire or interest or action that might be gurly.

I'm trying to be patient with myself, but the voice isn't budging, and I'm starting to want to scream at it for poisoning me so consistently.

Comments

[mimerki.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if it's helpful to you, but I've taken to pointing out to my similar Voice that whatever the problem item is? It's *really* butch. Being gentle with an injury in martial arts? Far more butch than powering through it. Knitting in public? Only someone really butch would be comfortable doing that.

(And I've re-read this comment three times now and keep thinking it sounds wrong. So it should be supportive and helpful, and if I've failed at that tone, I apologize.)

[tereshkova2001.livejournal.com]

A friend once affectionately called me "the femmiest tomboy you'll ever meet" and it stuck so hard I use it as my journal title. My brain is a lot more genderqueer than my presentation is. The only man I can pass for is David Bowie, who's as androgynous as they come.
I've sort of given up trying, which is sometimes disappointing. Don't talk yourself out of being who you are.

[annissamazing]

I think a lot (most? all?) of people who are sensitive to gender issues have this voice. I know I fought a long time against being perceived as "girly," even though I am cis-gendered. But the fact is, I like a lot of things that are commonly seen as ultra-feminine. Hell, half of my summer clothes are pink. And now I get a kick out people's reactions to my styled hair, fancy makeup, pink clothes, and blue language.

Basically, what tereshkova2001 said.

My cognitive dissonance: I work in an extremely conservative environment where "You're such a girl" is a common insult among the guys. My response: "And what's wrong with that?" Meanwhile I try not to fall in the trap of saying, "Man up," every time one of them complains.

[grum]

Murr. Indeed. Well wishes at figuring out how to derail the hateful bits.

Tea and chocolate or other comfort of choice.
-B

[gement.livejournal.com]

Thanks.

[gement.livejournal.com]

I have you as one of my role models for not apologizing for femininity. You're very strong and interesting and have good boundaries and WOW curly hair and pink.

So thanks, and you're doing your part.

[gement.livejournal.com]

Augh, third time trying to reply to this.

I'd gotten that impression from some of your body language and costume choices, actually. :) Thanks for sharing.

At one point recently I started rattling off the men I expect/hope to look like to a friend, who said, "and of course, young David Bowie."

... who was so large in the landscape I'd completely forgotten to mention him.

My friend's response: "Well, you can only see so many long-faced, well-dressed slender men with pronounced cheekbones and floppy hair before David Bowie emerges, and begins singing "Lady Grinning Soul"."

[annissamazing]

:)

[gement.livejournal.com]

I heard the supportive, and feel well supported. :)

The discipline for me is not needing it to be butch. (It's okay for yours to be different.)

I need masculine to not be my only highest value. I have no patience for that in the guys who comment on shirt.woot to say that because a shirt has any hint of cuteness about it, it's unwearable by manlymen, and I smell the same "ew, girl cooties" on this reaction of mine.

I do appreciate the "confident in my masculinity" stance, though, and use that one, since I can refer back in my head to admiring other men knitting on the bus.

[tereshkova2001.livejournal.com]

I was sad that you weren't at the Nerdvana Halloween party, because I dressed as Desire and wanted to show you.

[gryphonwing.livejournal.com]

Ugh, I do this too - I think that voice isn't quite as strong for me, but I, too, have a pink allergy. Of late it's dying down, but I'm still allergic to it on ME. I can buy pink things for other people who like it... and I just told my mother it's fine to get me girly things, sometimes I like to dress girly...

But it's a balancing act. A lot of the time I feel like my standard gender presentation (soft butch, I guess) privileges masculinity in ways that really drive me crazy. I don't want it to be *bad* to be feminine! Luckily I do have several femme friends who kind of help - I admire them and I sure as hell don't think they're weak or something just because they like to be pretty. That helps me realize that the misogyny is mostly internal at this point - it's about my own discomfort with the gender ideals that were drilled into me and didn't really match who I was. Being feminine was always presented to me as part of being attractive and getting a man and all that - things I really didn't want. I've only started to really be okay with being attractive in the last few years. I used to hate wanting to look good...

I mean, it's still internalized misogyny, and that doesn't thrill me. I still feel cognitive dissonance sometimes if I do very feminine things (talking about feelings! OMG CRYING REALLY CRYING NO).

So - I can sympathize, at least. I'm glad you're talking back to that inner voice, and you know, even if you can't get it to shut up, awareness of it is an awesome step. :)

[mimerki.livejournal.com]

You were awesome as Desire!

[tereshkova2001.livejournal.com]

Thank you! :)

[gement.livejournal.com]

O.O

That gets my big eyes.

I did that costume a decade ago, when I was loaning my Delirium costume to a friend. We got nearly the whole gang together; it was adorable.

Do you have photos? Please tell me there is graphical documentation.

[gement.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure of our shared context or how I missed you friending me earlier, but I am friending the hell out of you.

[gryphonwing.livejournal.com]

I actually don't remember at all. :) But thank you!

[sistawendy.livejournal.com]

(Disclaimer: You know I'm attracted to women, and you better know I'm attracted to you.)

The correct answer is, "Yes, and I'm a damn fine gurl. I'm a better gurl than you are a boi."

[gryphonwing.livejournal.com]

I mean, usually I introduce myself and stuff. We do have a few shared friends, so I probably fell in internet-love with a comment or something...

I see in your userinfo that you're from Eastern Washington? I'm at WSU at this point. Fun fun.

[gement.livejournal.com]

Raised in Clarkston, moved to Seattle as soon as I came of age. If you're ever on the other side of the mountains, consider saying hi!

[gement.livejournal.com]

*very feminine blush*

Why, thank you, ma'am.

[gfish.livejournal.com]

This is only vaguely related, but I just stumbled across this amazing set of photos of androgynous "Teddy girls" from 50s London and I immediately thought of you. Seems like a look you'd really dig.

[gement.livejournal.com]

My goodness, yes. Good call, thanks!

[tereshkova2001.livejournal.com]

Here's this year's effort:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21077670@N02/sets/72157628251829595
(I am rather fond of the shots with my Dream and Death bookends.)

These are from 2009, with smoother makeup and hair but more awkward binding:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/michelledockrey/sets/72157616814554580/

[gement.livejournal.com]

Ohhhh, yes yes yes yes.

Binding is a pain. My sympathies.

I don't have your build, so I had to go with squarer lines to hide my hips. Blue Chinese brocade shirt with squarish shoulders, and black flowing pants that just kind of disappeared into the background, white makeup, a gold cat's eye domino mask, and chocolate cigarettes.

It gets a lot of attention at a party if you even look vaguely like you're smoking, and it was a great focus to keep me mindful of how I moved my hands.

[sinthrex.livejournal.com]

That's really well done, I'm impressed. Thanks for sharing.

[tereshkova2001.livejournal.com]

Thank you. :)